The Homeward Podcast

Episode 16: Program Models + Proven Process with Andrew Church

• Knox Area Rescue Ministries • Season 1 • Episode 16

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  • We are creating a program model that is going to promote access to shelter, increase independency, and affirm people's dignity. 

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Interested in learning more about us? Please visit karm.org or reach out to Celia at clively@karm.org today!

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to the Homework Podcast, the show where we illuminate the human stories behind homelessness, redefining what home truly means through real voices, honest conversations, and education that fosters empathy, awareness, and action. Carm is highly rated by Charity Navigator, recognized as the best Christian workplace, and accredited by the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. We are one of 30 rescue missions in the country rated as excellent and distinguished from City Day. And most recently, we are an Emmy Award-winning organization with our documentary. You can click the link in the show notes to watch it today. I'm Celia Lively, the host of the Home Word Podcast. And today I'm on the mic with a Homeward Podcast favorite, Andrew Church. Before we get started, I do want to introduce the people behind the mic. Will Taylor is our producer. He does all of the sound, all of the everything to make sure you have a show. He also keeps me in line, which is a very challenging job. And most recently we have Larley Cochran, who is our copywriter, she does all of the show notes, and so make sure you check those out to see those relevant links. So Andrew is the vice president of programs, and today we are talking about the Restoration Pathway program model at Concord. So this is a new to us model of programming, and we're breaking it all down for you today. Andrew, welcome back to the show. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_04

I'm great. It's warming up outside, everything's blooming, my head hurts, but my forehead sunburnt, and that's great because I love the sun.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. Fun, fun. Well, welcome back to the show. Glad to have you. So before we get started, can you just give me a high-level overview of the new program model? You don't have to go super into detail because we're going to get there. Maybe like a couple sentences overview.

SPEAKER_04

Sure. So CARM currently operates in what I call a permanent emergency model, which sounds even really bad off the tongue.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Permanent emergency. I don't like that for people to remain in an emergency model. And so for you know, for our whole lifetime, we are one of the rare missions, if not one of the only that I know of that operates where folks can stay in an emergency bed and in an emergency shelter for an unlimited amount of time. We're literally talking years. So that's our current model. And I for me, that really doesn't help with independency or help with someone's uh help affirm someone's dignity. It actually kind of insinuates that folks can remain and stay and depend on a 300-room shelter to meet all their needs for the rest of their life. And so for me, that's that's not okay.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

That model. And so the new program model for us is really us catching up to the rest of the world and the nation in best practice. And so uh for years now, I would say over 10 years, CARM has thought about this new model, uh, thought about implementing it. And so now we're going to do that on April the 6th. Um, we've thought a lot about this model. We've gotten guest surveys uh over the last year to help the guests guide decision making and receive input into what the new model should look like. We've been literally around the country three times uh from Ohio to Denver to Atlanta and all around to Indianapolis to study best practice and what other cities are doing. And we want to implement that here. And we want to partner with our Office of Housing Stability and our Continuum of Care in the Knox area to promote a goal-oriented, housing-focused uh shelter model. That's what everybody else is doing. We should be doing that for folks to gain access. And so, yeah, CARM's new model, if I were to do an elevator pitch, CARM's new model is going to expand access, reduce dependency, and create a clear, dignified pathway from crisis to housing, healing, and lasting restoration.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That's what we're here to do. Um and so, yeah, that's a high-level overview of kind of where we've been over the last decade, why we need to do this, because most a lot of people know, some may not, but you know, homelessness has grown at a 200% rate in the last eight years since 2018. And at the same rate and in the same amount of time, shelter capacity has only grown 16%. And so there's not enough beds. And right now, the flow rate through homelessness, there's a lot of folks that are on the street that are unhoused that do not have access to a bed. And our new model really doesn't change anything in and around our building. It doesn't change our health services. Everyone has access to health services. It doesn't change our meals, everyone has access to mills. What it really focuses on is who gets an assigned bed because we have a ton of people waiting and not a lot of movement on the back end and so uh of shelter, not a lot of people exiting. And so we're trying to create a a shelter model that flows people through into housing and support.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So walk me through. Somebody comes to CARM their first day, what happens?

SPEAKER_04

Somebody that comes to CARM on their first day, um, first of all, they're in a crisis and they're experiencing trauma. And so our team is trained to address that and and obviously meet their needs in a crisis situation. But we do really believe that crisis should not be a long-term thing, that we should address it in the moment, uh, through basic needs like a meal in a bed, which so that's the first thing they're going to get is a meal and a person that wants to, you know, that wants to support them and help them. Uh also on their first day, they would go through what we call an intake.

SPEAKER_03

And who does that?

SPEAKER_04

And that's with our care coordination team.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Care coordination for us is just a fancy term uh for a case manager. Um, but everyone that comes into CARM receives an intake on day one, and that is really an hour or so of motivational interviewing. Hey, who are you? Where did you come from? How can we help? Tell me about this, tell me about that. So we're really trying to understand someone's story, gather information on how to best serve them. Um, but in the intake, we do gather information and share that with our uh homeless management information system across the area to see if they're engaging in other areas or if they've been chronically homeless or if this is their first time. Uh, we also see how we cannot uh see if they need shelter. We try we're going to try to do a shelter, what we call a shelter diversion to where we hopefully can get them placed in housing or with family or with other supports to where they don't have to enter emergency shelter. So that's we're really trying to look at that. If it comes throughout the interview to where a person does need shelter, we're going to integrate them into our shelter at car. And so that means taking them on a tour, walking them in through our spaces to see, you know, what goes on during the day, where to access things like laundry and storage and meals, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

What programs are happening, um, what is offered to them uh via health services or just case management support. So that intake on the first day is really important. Um it gets them access to services that they need.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and that's not changing in the new program model. That will stay. So tell me about day 14 in the new program model. What will be happening?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so our program model really the only change over the last two years we've we've done a lot of work in our programs to make them relevant, to make them uh what what the guests need, uh to help support the guests holistically. What the ch what our program model is moving toward is really seen in the first 28 days. So think about someone showing up at an emergency shelter. What does it look like in the first really the first month, the first 28 days for that person? And so the new model on day one is folks are going to receive an intake and start getting their basic needs met. In the first three days, we want them to get engaged with a case manager to go through the intake and understand what is offered to them, but also receive a referral to our health services team and our care center to receive a health assessment so we can start you know addressing those needs as well. Throughout their first two weeks, as they're addressing those needs and stabilizing, we're going to have a second touch point at day 14. And at day 14 in someone's stay, we're going to have a second sit-down meeting with them between a case manager and the guest and talk about what they would like to do. Okay, and this is really happening from day one. Right. Understanding what the next 28 days look like. Uh but at day 14, we're going to ask them to engage in our community at some level.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, whether that be case management, treatment, um, tr programs, transitional programs, whatever that may look like for them, whatever their their choices and goals are, we're gonna ask them to begin some type of engagement, either internally at CARM or externally in our continuum of care with our partners and other folks in the community. And so at day 14, well, they're gonna know that on day one that that meeting's coming.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And then we're gonna have that conversation. At day 14, we're gonna ask them, hey, would you like to engage externally or internally at some level to move forward out of homelessness? If they opt in to that and we can verify that and validate that through a phone call or through our homeless management system, that's great, right? They're engaged. So wonderful. So their 28 days uh is going to be extended uh to an unlimited amount of time as long as they're engaging and working some sort of minimal plan. Okay. If on day 14 they don't choose that, they say, Hey, I don't need those services, I just needed shelter for a few nights, I I'm not gonna choose that. We're gonna let them know two weeks early, okay, on day 14 that their actually their bed will be unassigned on day 28. Okay, so they'll know this the whole time they've come in. Right, it's not a surprise. But by day 14, this will be at l at minimum the second time they've been addressed. Hey, if you're not going to choose a case manager or choose a program in the community at day 28, your bed will be unassigned. And so we we already kind of do this. We've been doing this for a year. If someone misses a a night at CARM that's you know not communicated, their bed is unassigned. We've had to do that because of the capacity issue. Well, a massive weight list and the unhoused issue in Knoxville in order to receive access to bed. So we're already doing this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, folks know and are being communicated to. But on day 14, if they don't choose, we'll actually give them a resource list and also a uh a uh card that shows them, like, hey, in two weeks your bed will be unassigned. During the next two weeks, at any time if you change your mind, please come back to us and let us know if you want to engage at some level. Um but if not, your bed will be unassigned on this day. And in this culture and in this context, they would have to spend 28 days away before they could re-engage with getting a bed at CARM. Now, while they're away, they can engage with services, any kind of services, meals, health services, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But as far as a bed's concerned, their bed would be unassigned on day 28, and they would have to spend 28 days away before they could re-enter. Okay. Why? Well, because we've done a lot of research and the data shows that a normal person that's staying with us uh stays an average between 18 and 24 days a year, nights a year. So the reason we sp we picked 28 was because, number one, 28 always starts on a Monday. Oh, yeah. So our our our we are fully staffed on those days to be able to support those meetings and intakes. But also, um our 28 days goes beyond what people are already averaging staying with us a year. Right? So we're we feel like the 28 days is more than enough for the for the kind of that median or mean person staying with us. We have a lot of people that are in and out, in and out, in and out at CARM. You can never, they're very transient, in and out, stay for a day, stay for three days, come back three months, stay for a day, stay for five days. And then we have a a pop uh you know a population at CARM that stayed for months and months and months, well over six months, some multiple years, and never engaged.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And we want more for them than they're yeah, and so and and why haven't they engaged? Well, maybe they don't know the programs and services that are offered. They can just come in and sleep and eat, and that's all that's fine. Uh maybe they've um, you know, yeah, they but maybe they have they just don't know what's offered, um, or they've just become so comp complacent and comfortable in an emergency setting that they're continually deteriorating and not being engaged. They have that choice right now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

This model is going to shift that. And so it's going to invite them in to at le meet minimally with a case manager every 30 to 45 days. Right. Right? That's not asking much. One touch point every 30 to 45 days to ask how you're doing, how you doing on your plan, what are your goals, how can we help you meet your goals?

SPEAKER_03

Right. Because we don't want somebody to stay at CARM forever. No. Right. We want this to be a launch pad to the next thing for them to flourish and thrive, whether that's housing, permanent supportive housing, a nursing home and assisted living, whatever that may be.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

We don't we don't want to kick you out. That's not our heart at all. But we also want more for you than to live in a shelter for us.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, the ultimate goal of our homeless response system should not be continually staying in shelter for two to four or five years. Right. Just shouldn't. That's not our goal. We're better than that. It should be dignified housing, community, you know, with with community around it. Exactly. And supports. And that's the ultimate goal. And we've already, like I said, already made some changes around bed assignments and offering programs and services that guests really want and need. And just in the incremental changes in the pilot programs that we've been setting up for this change, we've already uh increased our housing outcomes two and a half times.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

So now we're housing two and a half times the amount of people that we've been housing historically in the last five years. So we're seeing more outcomes. We're actually seeing people move and beds open up and our response system housing folks at a at a rapid rate, even in a housing crisis. And so that's a big deal. That's a big deal. And so we want to offer that to everybody. Right. Everybody. Um whether you know CARM of 2019 or 2023, we want them to know what's offered at CARM in 2026 and beyond. And so we've looked at, like I said, looked at models that are very successful at engaging folks at a minimal level. So, like in Denver, um, Denver has an allotment of days, emergency days, because they're actually treating an emergency as something temporary on their pathway to stabilization and housing. At Cherry Street Mission in Toledo, Ohio, folks get, and they're the only mission in town, they get seven emergency days before having to engage with a case manager.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

In Atlanta, it's about 28 days. Um, folks, because of context in other cities, people, if they don't choose to do that, folks have to spend 30 days away. In some contexts, 45 days before they can re-enter a mission. For us, we think 28's a great starting point because of our data with length of stay. Right. And it encompasses those averages. And also 28 days away, um, you know, offering those community supports like relaunch, like um VMC, uh CAC and others, um allowing that uh time away to happen, uh, navigating other issues, but also allowing folks who are on the waiting list to come and and try and have an attempt and an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Because that's right right now, it's really hard for us saying again and again and again, we have no space for you. And that person may be situationally homeless and need one thing and can be rehoused.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

You know, or placed back in community really quickly. But the fur the more they remain unhoused or without an emergency sh shelter supports, they deteriorate cognitively.

SPEAKER_03

They get sicker.

SPEAKER_04

They get sicker, mental health becomes an a thing, potentially addiction.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

The longer that they remain unhoused. And so we're really trying to address the chronically homeless situation in Knoxville and people remaining.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh and so, yeah, the new model, like I said, 28 days, what happens in those first 28 days is what's different. And it's a lot more strategy at intake, making sure a second touch point happens within the first two weeks with an early communication about would you like to enter or would you like to exit, giving that person time to think about it because they're going to need that. And then at 28 days choosing, right, making that decision that they can make and either entering or spending that time away. And for folks, we know this, we know this. There's an unlimited amount of times people can enter and exit. Unlimited. There's no allotment. You know, it's gonna, you know, it may take someone two or three, four times to go through that process.

SPEAKER_03

But it's not like a punch card of like, uh, you've used your nine times, you can't come back. It's like, no, you can continue to come back.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_03

And while you're gone, we equip you with, you can get meals and medical still at CARM, but also we put together this giant resource of all the places in town you could get meals, clothing, services. I mean, all of our community partners are on this resource guide. Because we don't want to just say, well, you can't stay here. Good luck out there. That's not how we operate. That's not dignifying, that's not helpful. So we want to equip people to be able to for these next steps. But also, I want to emphasize something you said about it's their choice, right? Nothing we don't force anything upon you. It is your choice to decide. Do you want to engage? Do you just need one thing and then you're good to go? But it's up to the person. I can't make that decision for you. You make it for yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And and really, we've, like I said, we've been in conversations for years about this. And so we've keyed in OH, our Office of Housing Stability and Continuum of Care for over a year, year and a half, saying, hey, we're making this move. Can you help inform this? And they're saying, actually, this is the most compassionate thing we can do. This is compassion to give someone opportunity, to give someone agency in their decisions to move forward and to allow access for others. Um and so, you know, that's I think I really do believe that we work together in a community and part and partners need have to work together and need to work together. And we've received encouragement from our friends at VMC, our friends at the city and county, um, and other places. Um, and they're supporting us in this in this change, right? And so that's it, that's important to me. And it was also important to me to get guest feedback. Hey, what do you want to see?

SPEAKER_03

Tell me about that survey.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so we did a survey last July, um, and it was a 10-question survey, but it was basically around like, hey, what do you need? What's most important to you at CARM? Is it bag storage? Is it meals? Is it case management? Is it access to housing? If you do you have a case manager, would you like a case manager? You know, um, how long have you stayed? You know, if you could exit sooner and it took a case manager, would you want to do that? All those types of questions. And resoundingly, the fe the feedback was 80% of people uh said, I want a case manager.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, you know, 80% of people said, I'll, you know, access to housing is more important than bag storage to me. Access to housing is more important than a meal to me, right? And and so I just think about last November, we, you know, we were there was a permanent supportive housing complex that opened up, and we we had about 37 guests move in and become residents in a nice permanent supportive housing unit. Um, and just to feed those 37 people, just to feed those 37 people uh for the for the month of November would have been over ten thousand dollars just to feed those folks. Wow. We got them housed with less than a, you know, in with all the transition expenses and support and everything, it with a tenth of that. You know, and so for me it's like um We need to prepare people for housing and what that looks like for them. We don't need to leave them once they get the keys. They need support and community.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

They're scared to live independently. Maybe they haven't lived independently in a long, long time.

SPEAKER_03

You go from having 200 roommates to no roommates.

SPEAKER_04

You go to having that community and those that many folks around you to being alone and having to navigate a property management company and a housing complex. And so for us, it's about preparing and equipping and empowering. And there's also, we've fought so much around our neighbors who potentially have a special have special needs, have special requirements around housing and around being able to participate in a model like this. And so we've even created with this model what we call our wellness program. And our wellness program is for those high acuity individuals that we see that maybe can't live on their own, maybe can't um not equipped to make decisions in the moment, um, may need extra assistance. And so this wellness program really has a treatment team of these difficult cases to begin to move them in their own time and in their own way into unique, unique uh placements like group homes or assisted living, skilled nursing facilities, those types of things. And so we've taken that subpopulation into consideration because that's a growing population in our shelter and also in our community. That there are just gaps uh and folks have you know have a lot of needs. And so we're also considering that. We're not, you know, those folks will get on a a specific track or pathway on their journey forward. And so we're going to definitely cons obviously take that in consideration and be very, very careful with that population.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Tell me about people who have jobs during the day. So a lot of our services happen during like a business day. What if somebody is at work? Can you tell me the percentage of people who stay at CARM who have jobs and what that this new model looks like for them?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. I so s historically at CARM, there's been about 25% of our folks who are working in some capacity. The majority of that's probably day labor.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So it's not potentially continuous income and it's definitely not live a livable wage. Sure. And so something else we've really piloted and tried to expand is our job training and our um kind of equipping classes, life skills, soft skills, uh, and just basic certifications to go clean or, you know, do commercial cleaning, do culinary training, those types of things. So folks can actually get a living wage and begin to support themselves. Um, and whatever that looks like could be part-time, full-time. And so we have about 25% of folks who do work. The majority of that, like I said, is day labor. Uh, and some of folks work, you know, third shift, second and third shifts. They do come in later. It is going to be more challenging for them to meet regularly with a case manager, care coordinator, uh, or engage in a daily program if they're not there. We've taken all that into consideration and really we're asking them to come and establish a relationship with a case manager and help review whatever their plan looks like every 30 to 45 days. So even if that means in the evening hours, if they're working during the day, scheduling those appointments in the evenings to be able to have a check-in with them just to make sure they're fine and they're they're getting what they need. Um and so we've considered that. You know, I think nationally uh it's reported that about 50% of folks who are in shelter are working. That ours has always historically, I don't know what that looks like, I mean where they're getting that information, but ours has always been around 25, 30 percent at most, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So awesome. So would CARM still be considered an emergency shelter with this new thing?

SPEAKER_04

It's funny the terms and the definitions. When I think of emergency shelter, I think of like the Red Cross. Yeah. You know, like oh my gosh, there's a weather event.

SPEAKER_03

Right. We have emergency shelter. Right now.

SPEAKER_04

We're a rescue mission.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, and so for us, we try to be, you know, there's all these terminologies, low barrier shelter, emergency shelter. We are a we're a homeless shelter, right? Um, and we're about as low barrier, we've tried to become as low barrier as we can be with the amount of people we serve, you know, in the building that we're in.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And so we have there's a just a lot of things in regard to safety and trauma-informed care and design that we're we're balancing in the moment on our shelter policies around, you know, bag storage. And you know, we we we we do assigned beds, so everybody gets their own bed every night. That changed about a year ago.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

We have under-the-bed storage, so people can quickly access and store safely and securely their their items. That is limited, because you can imagine 370 guests with each each having four bags. We can't, we there's no space. Right. And so we do have a bag policy that's two bags and a back personal item. Um, you know, those types of things, uh, just to make this huge shelter function well and safely. And you know, um, and that goes in with hygiene and and all those types of things. And so, um, but for us, I would classify we're a rescue mission. We're as we're as low berry as we can get. And yes, we provide emergency services at our rescue mission, but I do believe that a crisis in an emergency has a finite time period, and we want to we want to address it in real time and we want to move forward from that and empower folks. And so um we are the same. We're emergency. We're we're we're gonna treat emergencies and crises the same that we treat them in our old model. What we're talking about now is we're not gonna create dependency.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Months and months and years and years of dependency. We're gonna create independency, interdependency, and independency, right? We work, you need you may need a lot of help on the front end, we're gonna get there, we're gonna help stabilize, and then we're gonna work together in a relationship, right, to move forward, and then you're gonna get to a spot, right, where you can live and thrive in a in a community that you choose. And so that's kind of the model and the the restorative pathway that we want to choose. So emergency services, we're always gonna do them. It's in our blood and our heartbeat.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Um we're gonna try to meet, we're gonna try to accommodate and meet all the needs we can meet in our context.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if this question gets brought up or not, but how would couples be handled?

SPEAKER_04

Like, do we get a lot of couples that come in together or uh couples, I would say not normally coming in together. We do have those. So right now we have a veteran who has a wife who's not a veteran. And so we're working with them on getting housing. It's a little, it's a little challenging because you know, veteran gets access to all these services. There's all this funding and support there. And then, you know, but they're a couple, and so it's taking a little bit longer to get both of them through the process. Um, so we do work with with folks. We have a men's and women's dorm.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

So we actually don't have, you know, in-tac family spaces, like design spaces. Do we serve in-tack families? Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

And so we have funding and client uh services to where we can get folks either house and keep them together outside of our emergency shelter with some other family programming, or we use existing spaces and kind of accommodate those to serve the family. We do invite folks, um, we do have w uh spaces for women and children. There are certain instances where we would invite, they don't certainly don't have to, but we would invite them, you know, the women and children can stay in this area that's designed for them. The man, we have men's areas for for for the person to sleep all during all other times of the day, they can be together in other spaces. And so it's a little complex question. So yes, we serve intact families, yes, we serve families.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Can we sleep families in the same place? Yes, we accommodate, you know, spaces that shouldn't office spaces and public spaces to for folks to stay together, which is really sad when you think about it. Um, but that's a small sub intact families are really a small subset for us. Right. Um, we do partner with other agencies that do that have some rooms like Salvation Army uh to do that. By far and above, single women with children are the fastest growing subset of families that we need to address. And that's really what we've poured our resources into is how do we expand and support to serve single women with children because it's a huge need in our community. So we're looking at what are the fastest growing subpopulations, you know, what are the most, you know, what's where's the biggest need, the greatest need, and that's definitely around families.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But families are single women with children in this context. And um chronic those that are chronically homeless, which basically are have been homeless and remained homeless for over a year.

SPEAKER_03

So with the couples, would say a man and a woman come in together.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Woman wants to participate, she's on day twenty eight, she's like, I'm staying. The guy is like, I'm good. Would they be treated as a couple or as individuals?

SPEAKER_04

They would be treated as individuals.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, as they can make that own choice.

SPEAKER_04

Everybody has would be would have their own assigned case manager or care coordinator, as we call it, and would be on their own plan. Um now obviously we would work together. Hopefully we could resolve that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

Um, that that component. Um But yeah, that's how we would treat those cases.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that the actions of one doesn't impact the actions of the other. They get to make their own choice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Cool. Very cool. Anything else you want to add about the new program? It launches April 6th. This episode will be uh released a couple days before then, so our listeners are getting an inside scoop. Yes. It happens April 6th. Our team, they're currently meeting with guests who are currently at CARM. And so our guests are learning all of this. Like you said, we've been piloting some of these things for a year, if not more. Um so it's not gonna, they're not gonna wake up on April 6th and that be the first time they're hearing about this.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I you know, I think for me, some of the big just bullet point takeaways are this has been in the works for a long time. And it's been informed by guests, it's been informed by staff, by other um best practice missions and organizations across the country. It's been reviewed, stamped by our continuum of care, supported. Yeah. Um, our our partners are uh know and understand this. We have spent hours laboring over communication, yes, inviting people into that. So donors, volunteers, guests, partners, staff, you name it, we're communicating that. Right. And um, so there's a lunch and learn next week for our partners, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um This wasn't something that you and I just came up with, and we were like, well, let's get on a podcast and record this.

SPEAKER_04

This is not a sudden change. This is strategic, well thought out, a lot of intent behind it with the design. Um we've already done a lot of the things and are doing a lot of the things and are seeing very positive results. Right. Um and like I said, over the next two weeks we'll hold um 10 info sessions for our guests. So there's a plan for current guests staying with us to communicate and phase them in. And obviously, there's a plan for new guests and new intakes starting on April the 6th.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, it's very well thought out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And for months and months and months of how do we do this with dignity? Yeah. How do we honor the guest? How do we move them quicker and not lose any of that dignity? We want them to flourish. How do we help more people? Yeah, all of the things.

SPEAKER_04

There was a there was a faith and uh there's a there's a faith giant that passed away last week. His name was John Perkins. I encourage you to read some of John's books and uh delve into his world a little bit. Um he's very much at the heartbeat of how I see programs and how I see community and reconciliation. He's big on reconciliation. Powerful story, but John said um, you know, you don't give people dignity. People already have dignity, you affirm their dignity. And so that's our model is doing that. We're not affirming someone's dignity by letting them remain in homelessness and remain in an emergency shelter setting. You affirm dignity by reinviting them and encouraging them. And they may not choose that in the moment, and that's okay. We're going to reinvite them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And so I I just for me, with Christian community development and with meeting the needs of our neighbors and loving our neighbor well, I think we need to affirm dignity and not um assign it to people because everyone has has been created in the image of God. So that challenges our programs, it challenges me to really um steward our resources well.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. So that's good. I like that a lot. Do you have been on the show before, so you know how we do the last two questions? So one of them is what would your sticky note be? You kind of touched on it a little bit. What if somebody forgets everything that we talked about and they just remember one thing, what do you want that one thing to be?

SPEAKER_04

We're creating a program model that is going to promote access to shelter, increase independency, um, and affirm people's dignity.

SPEAKER_03

Love it. Great sticky note. My last question is home. What does home mean to you? The last time you were on the show, you said Disney World. Well, I've been on that.

SPEAKER_04

This is my third time to be a good one. Okay. My third time. You're very popular. You know, I have two kids, four and five. They're into everything. Um we go outside a lot, you know, uh we play. I think I'm gonna get really weird this time. I do love Disney World. It is my they they tell me welcome home every time I come. And so they really have convinced me that it is my home and I'm paying for that. I've been paying for that. I will not retire until I'm 88. Um, I think I have a new home.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

It's sort of like a mobile home.

SPEAKER_03

Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_04

It's called a cruise. Oh, and I've discovered cruising. All right.

SPEAKER_03

It's nice, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04

Disney cruising. I'm gonna tell you something. My wife's a travel agent. Yes. But I'm sold. Like it's my second home. Like I'm gonna go on every cruise that I can possibly go on for the rest of my life. They have childcare. You offload your kids, they go to the kids' club, they make friends. There's like a bunch of English nannies down there, and they fall in love with the Mary Poppins nannies, and you get time with your wife.

SPEAKER_03

Amazing.

SPEAKER_04

And your cell phone does not work on the ship unless you paper Wi-Fi, and I'm not doing it. No. And you so you're forced to slow down, you're forced to spend time with your family, you get time with your spouse, and you get to just be. And I just cruising is awesome. It's like mobile. It's my mobile home. Love that. I don't think that me and Jamie will go on some of those old people cruises.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Like for a year.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, because I think we're a certain subset of and Disney cruises are unbelievably expensive. Right. And so, but I that's my wish, is what does home look like for me? It looks like time without a phone.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Where my wife and my kids are everything slows down and you're running around in the city. Right. So whether that's in my backyard or it's on a cruise, whatever. That's where my mind's headed. That's my next vacation.

SPEAKER_03

So I mean, I'm gonna look into cruises after we get done recording. That sounds great.

SPEAKER_04

You gotta do it.

SPEAKER_03

You're together, but you're disconnected. I would love to be unreachable.

SPEAKER_04

So and they have movie theaters, two of them running 24 hours a day, and I love movies.

SPEAKER_03

I love movies. That's my dream.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Awesome. Awesome. Anything else you want to add before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_04

I don't think so. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Well, thanks for joining us today, your podcast fave. So come back anytime. We love having you. And to the listeners, be sure to follow along and so that you can um never miss an episode. And then you can find us on socials at Nox Area Rescue Ministries, and I will see y'all at home.

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Celia Lively

Host
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Charles Shyblosky

Producer